Conversation with Jen Sandler, Off-Broadway Producer

Broadway ReFocused is in conversation with Off-Broadway producer, Jen Sandler. Jen talks about her experience becoming a producer in New York City and how new diverse musicals will usher in a theatrical renaissance when theatre reopens. Jen is a creative producer and theatre administrator based in New York City. She recently co-produced Joe Iconis' Broadway Bounty Hunter at the Greenwich House Theater. Jen serves as Associate Artistic Director of New York Theatre Barn and as an Original Programming Producer at Feinstein's/54 Below. Previously, Sandler has worked on Penn and Teller on Broadway as well as at prominent theater companies such as Playwrights Horizons, Primary Stages and MCC Theater. Follow Jen on Instagram: @jensandler

Conversation with Jen Sandler - Episode 8

Spencer Williams: Welcome Jen Sandler to Broadway Refocused. We're so excited to have you Jen and talk a little bit about producing in New York City and your journey to New York. So, why don't we jump right in and you can just tell us a little bit about how you got to New York City.

Jen Sandler: Well, thank you for having me, honestly. And I say like, I feel like my story is so boring, but like normal, like I grew up in north New Jersey, about 20-25 minutes from Midtown. So, I kind of was always one of those people that had Broadway in their backyard. I'm from a town called Fair Lawn, New Jersey and we went to the regional theater awards every year, they were called the Rising Star Awards and they were held at the Paper Mill Playhouse and whoever won those got to go to the Jimmy Awards.

Well, they weren't even called that then, but they're now called the Jimmy Awards and they're at the Minskoff, and I've just kind of always been in this town where it was okay to like theater, honestly, if you didn't like theater growing up, you were the minority.

Like I went to an elementary school where the third, fourth and fifth graders had to be in the musical and like, you couldn't get out of it. So, third and fourth graders had to be in ensembles every year. So, when I was in third grade, I was in Fiddler on the Roof. I had no idea what I was singing about when I sang "Sunrise, Sunset."

And that was like kinda my first taste of being in a show after complaining that I couldn't be an Annie the year before cause I was in second grade. Fourth grade, I was an Oliver and I was just an orphan with a broken wooden bowl. And then when you were in fifth grade, you had to be a principal role.

And I was one of the Shinn daughters in The Music Man. I wasn't Zaneeta, the one that says "ye gads" I was the other one, I was Gracie. And I've just, always been, I feel fortunate cause I've always been in a place where like, if you don't like theater, you're a weirdo kind of, you know, I've always, you know, my first Broadway show was when I was six years old.

I've just always, it's always been something where I don't know life without it to be honest with you. And New York has always, like I'm lucky, I could get up on my jungle gym when I was a child and look at the New York skyline from where my parents' house was. And I know so many people don't have that. And I just, I feel so fortunate that my journey was still a journey, but it was a journey that was a lot shorter distance wise than a lot of other people.

Spencer Williams: So, Fair Lawn sounds like a magic town to me. I love that.

Jen Sandler: It's a big theater town, Donna DeVino, the original Cosette is from there. If you know, Julia Knitell who was Carol King in Beautiful for awhile, she's from there a lot, a lot of people it's a great town.

Spencer Williams: How did you become one of the original programmers at 54 below? I love 54 Below so tell us a little bit about that.

Jen Sandler: That's it go a long wave, so, I thought I was going to be an actor. Like, I feel like everyone does when they're in high school, because you don't know better.

I feel like if you're lucky, you know, the actors exist, directors and like maybe, maybe if you're really lucky, a stage manager. And I kind of was one of those people where I thought I was gonna be an actor because it's what I liked to sing. And I started college for musical theater and wasn't getting cast and I'm one of those people where like, I don't take no for an answer.

So, I'm like, "Oh, they don't know what they're talking about. I'm still going to be a musical theater star." And then I kind of had this epiphany. The middle of college where I was like, no, I'm not going to be a musical theater star. And I don't really like memorizing lines. And I went to my advisor and said, you know, I think I want to switch to theater admin as my major now.

And what do you think I should do? And she goes, "you should get an internship". And I said, "I don't know what to do though. Like, what do I, what should I do?" So, she was like, well, you really like to talk to people and you're really organized. You should intern in development. And I'm like what's development?

So, basically any off Broadway theater, that nonprofit has a development department and they fundraise for the theater. So, that's what I started to do. And this is a great day to talk about that because it's Giving Tuesday and every, every theater needs your money today, more than any day of the year.

But I kind of started in development. And my first internship was at MCC theater, which is one of the best theaters ever. Bernie Telsey, the casting director, runs it. And I did it for a year, it was my entire, senior year of college. And I loved it and realized like, I was like this is what I want to do.

I interned at another theater called Primary Stages. And then spent my entire first year out of college as the development fellow at Playwrights Horizons, which is the best, the best of the best. And kind of at the end of that year realized I really, really liked development, but also the greatest thing about development is you get to talk to people all day, which is my dream, but you're stuck at the back of the office all day.

And you have no say with how anything goes artistically. So, I kinda, at the end of my fellowship, one of my mentors in my department at the development department at Playwrights Horizon, was like, "Oh, You know, you have a really good spirit, but we're not sure you should be doing development." And I was like, "You're wrong?"

Cause I don't, I'm just one of those people where I want to succeed. At least I'm like you're wrong. And in that time, when I was at Playwrights Horizons, this is where this all goes back to 54 below, I promise. I met Jennifer Ashley Tepper, who was the director of programming at 54 below. And she was one of those people, she had just started at 54 below at that point.

And before that she was at Ken Davenport's office, who's a really great producer. And at that point, she was kind of this person on Twitter that talked about musical theater all the time. And almost felt too good to be true with like all she knew. And I was like, can someone really know all this about musical theater?

And she just seemed so cool and she likes to be a fan but she knows how to work in the theater too. And my cousin is the theater critic of a newspaper here in New York City and he went to college with her and I was like, can you please introduce me to Jennifer Ashley Tepper? And he kind of was like, "I dunno". And I kept asking him for months and months and months, I'm like, can you please introduce me to Jennifer Tepper? I have to know her. And then it was Rosh Hashanah 2013. And I was like, can you please introduce me to Jennifer Tepper? My mom's like "Matt, she will not stop talking about this. Please do it. I can't, I can't deal with this anymore." So, then that year, when I was at playwrights in the winter of 2013, he introduced me and she's been my mentor since I got out of college, essentially. So, this to bring it back to when I finished at Playwrights, I, you know, was told like, you're really great, but I'm not sure if development is your thing.

I kind of had this this year where I was like, they're wrong and I'm going to prove them wrong. And I would apply to all these different entry level development jobs at different theater companies, like, you know, everywhere from the Roundabout to the Public everywhere. And I would get to the final round of every interview and I wouldn't get the job.

And first I was like, you know, there's a thousand no's before every yes and I'm going to prove them wrong. And then it kind of got to a year at me doing this and I was like, you know, maybe this was a sign, this is an epiphany that I need to be having. And I was like, you know, the thing I always hated about fundraising and development in special events anyway, is that I have no artistic say I sit in the back of an office and ask people for money.

So, I was like, "Oh, I think I should be a producer." Because that's literally everything I did fundraising, but it's also all the artistic things I'm missing out on. So, my father is like a doctor and he's very, very hard and hard on you with everything I do. So, I was like, dad, I'm going to go to Jen Tepper. And I'm going to tell her, I want to be a producer, he's like, "Okay, sure". And I'm like, no, I'm going to do it. So, I said to Jen, I'm like, and you know, she's someone who's been my mentor ever since for the last year before that. And I was like, "Hey, can we have a meeting? I think. I want to talk about something with you." and she's like, "Yeah, sure".

So, I kind of walked into her office and I feel like this never happens like this. It's like you don't just walk into someone's office and ask them for a job usually. But I was like, "Hey, I think I want to be a producer. Like, what do you think about this?" She's like, "Yeah, that's a great idea".

And I was like, "Can I come work at 54 Below? Could I like to assist producers?" She she's like, yeah, "Which shows you want to work on? Tell me, I'll make it happen." And I was like, "Really?" She's like, "Yeah." And the cool thing about 54 Below is it's run by three Broadway producers, Richard Frankel, Tom Bartelle and Steve Baruch. And also Mark Ralph there's a fourth one, and they also are Broadway producers. She's just like, "Yeah, our office is also producing Penn and Teller on Broadway right now. Do you want to come be a production assistant?" I'm like,  I'll go, I'll come work on all the shows at 54 Below that I want to work on and we'll do Penn and Teller, like sure." And it's just, that's, I just feel like things don't normally happen that way, but at the same time they do in the sense that I feel like theater is so, so, so much about connection.

And if you set out to do what you want and you talk to the right people and you don't take no for an answer, you'll get the yes when you deserve the yes.

Spencer Williams: I love that. And it is so much about the connection. Being in the right spot at the right time and putting yourself out there, I think is super key. I love it.

Jen Sandler: Annoying your cousin at Rosh Hashanah dinner until they let you meet the people you want.

Spencer Williams: Exactly. I love that. So, how many concerts did you produce over at 54 Below?

Jen Sandler: My guess if I had to tell, between assisting in my current job or just my current job?

Spencer Williams: I would say both.

Jen Sandler: If I had to guess, I would say between 30 and 40, but I'd have to go back and check.

Spencer Williams: That's amazing.

Jen Sandler: It's been a lot though. It's definitely over 30 for sure.

Spencer Williams: Why don't you tell me a little bit about your experience of being a young female producer and putting these concerts on and programming 54 Below and kind of that experience? Yeah. Just, just give us a little bit about that, experience for you.

Jen Sandler: Yeah, so, I was an assistant for about 2-2.5 years before I had my current position. And I was mostly working as an assistant for someone named Shoshana Feinstein, who if you go on YouTube and watch a video where the YouTube channel is "Famous in NY" that's like who she is. And she filmed things all the time and she kind of realized that she wanted to really be focusing on that eventually.

So, that's kind of how I came in, it was like, kind of swooped in and have my current position now. And the first thing I ever pitched when I got my new role was Legally Blonde - the search for Elle Woods, 10 year Reunion concert.  I got most of those girls back together and that was the first thing I ever pitched, which sounds ludicrous now. But that was one of my first things.

I do this concert every year, that sadly didn't happen this year, but it's called It's Another Opening, Another Show. And it's all Broadway debuts of that season. And then 54 Sings One Direction were the first three things I ever pitched. And it's been interesting cause I think. I've done everything from 54 Sing shows to reunion concerts, like Legally Blonde. I've done shows in concert, I've done special things like Mel Brooks. I do this really great series with Alexandra Silver, from Fiddler on the Roof called I Wish and I think the thing about 54 Below, which is so special compared to producing a Broadway show is you have to think out of the box.

In a way you can't with a two hour musical, you know, it's 54 Below shows are seventy-five minutes maximum. And I feel like I've kind of gone in this mindset that I can't do what everybody else does, that I need to do something that is going to be exciting and people are going to want to come and it's going to sell.

And I think it's about taking risks in a way that's even crazier than Broadway.

Spencer Williams: Did you feel it was easy for you to jump right in with that and then people responded well to you? What was the working relationship over there for you?

Jen Sandler: Honestly, yes, because Shoshona was such a great mentor to me as a programming producer when I was the assistant that I feel like when it was my time to finally jump into her shoes, I was so well-trained because she did -- I mean, it's funny because I talked to other people that assisted before me and they're like, we didn't get to do everything you got to do. They trusted you with things that most people don't get to do. Like, I remember I was an assistant on a Cry Baby reunion concert, and it was Rosh Hashanah week and she was a lot more religious than me.

So, she's like, Hey, can you just take over rehearsals and email all these people? And I was like, yeah, sure. And like, I kind of had no idea what I was doing. I just kind of jumped in and I think -- sometimes you have to do that. Like all of my interns now I'm like, what do you want to learn? What can I help you with?

Because I think if you don't entrust interns to try and fail and not work, they're not going to get anything out of it. So, I think, I learned so much as I went when I got promoted, but I think I was so ready because people trusted me and let me do things beforehand.

Spencer Williams: Then what was your jump to Broadway Bounty Hunter. And like, what was that like to move to the Off-Broadway producing?

Jen Sandler: Yeah. So, my goal for a while has been to produce commercially and like the big difference of doing Off-Broadway non-profit and commercially, as you know, nonprofit is that got Playwrights Horizons or Roundabout, and that know you're raising money and it's all nonprofit.

And you're not trying to make money. It's for the theater and commercial theater you're literally raising thousands and thousands of dollars. And you know, you can do that both on Broadway and you can do it Off-Broadway too. Depending what the show is. I think I kind of had been working towards that for a while and I wanted to start with Off-Broadway because I knew basically, you have to raise a lot of money to do commercial theater. And I knew the raise was a lot less and the starting investor amount. Cause you know, you have to have investors and they have, they have like a minimum they have to invest. I knew the starting minimum would be a lot less of a budget Off-Broadway.

And Jen Tepper knew that for a while that I'd been trying and I was looking for the right thing and I had been a Joe Iconis fan for as long as I could remember. I mean, I feel like anyone in their late twenties and their thirties kind of have the same story as me. I feel like my first taste of Joe Iconis was "Blue Hair" from The Black Suits.

Jen kind of came to me about two years ago and she was like, yeah, two years ago. Yeah. Wow. I guess two years ago. And she's like, I want to talk to you about a project. We're going to bring Broadway Bounty Hunter Off-Broadway. And this was between when Be More Chill came to Broadway and after it had been Off-Broadway as a Signature, so it was going to be happening at the same time as Be More Chill. Be More Chill was going to be on Broadway and Broadway Bounty Hunter and it was going to be Off-Broadway in the same summer. And she's like, do you want to be a part of it? And I really had to think about it because I had to raise a hundred thousand dollars, which is a lot of money. Not as much for Broadway, but I had to think about it and, you know, yeah. So, I had to do that and needed a producing partner and I kind of came back to her after a few days and was like, you know, of course it's Joe, it's something that I want to do for a while. You're the lead producer. Of course. So, yeah.

And it's something I don't regret regardless of how the show did.

Spencer Williams: That's amazing. And I love that you had that goal and kind of went, with Jen on that journey.

Jen Sandler: And I think my teenage self is like, you're working with a guy that sings "Blue Hair", that like you used to be obsessed with.

Spencer Williams: I think it's really amazing when you start to collaborate with some of your mentors or people that you looked up to when you're in high school. And that happens when you move to New York City and you start to navigate the industry because the industry is small.

Jen Sandler: I think it doesn't happen like that in TV and film the same way. I think theater, we're such a community. And I think the idea is, you know, I worked with Steve Blanchard this past year who was like my Gaston in Beauty and the Beast, and went on to be the beast for a thousand years.

You know, it's just, I feel like you're going to have so many little moments like that, the longer you work in this business and it's just like, it just becomes part of it.

Spencer Williams: Working at New York Theater Barn -- you're working on new musicals, so you've had kind of this concert/cabaret experience, now Off-Broadway producing, and now you're working in new musicals. What are you most excited about in regards to working with new shows?

Jen Sandler: Yeah, I mean, I have assisted a lot of commercial producers, even before I worked at New York Theater Barn. So, new musicals have been, I've worked with straight plays as well, but new musicals have always kind of been what I've gravitated towards the most.

And I think in a time like this, where so much has shut down -- writers and producers and I feel like they're the ones more than anyone where we kind of can keep working in a way that sadly people that are actors and tech and stage managers, they can't work the same way.

And I think it's such a special time for new musicals because the work, I think, is more exciting than ever. And I think people aren't holding back with the stories they're writing and there is a place for new musicals in a way that I think when theater comes back, I've said this and I really, really, truly do believe this, we're going to have a theatrical renaissance when theater is back. And I think it's going to be reminiscent of the 80s when 42nd Street was ugly and dirty. I really think people are going to be taking chances on things they weren't taking chances on before. And I mean, we're also going to see people being safe too, because that's what's going to get tourists back to New York City. But I also think we're going to see non-profits and we're going to see producers commercially taking chances on new musicals even more now.

Spencer Williams: What type of new musicals do you think they'll take chances on?

Jen Sandler: I think, you know, things that talk about race, that talk about  sexuality, that talk about identity, that talk about who we are as people. I think we want to see those happy stories still that are period pieces, whatnot, and just things that are happy.

And you want to leave the theater with a smile on your face too, but you also want to think, and I think. You know, we want, you know, New York Theater Barn -- we've been developing a lot of shows that ask a lot of questions that are written by queer artists that are written by trans artists that are written people of color that are written by women.

And I think we were starting to hear from those voices a lot before the shutdown of theater, but I think we weren't hearing from them enough. And I think we're going to hear from them more than ever now. I think it's their time.

Spencer Williams:  How do you think we could get more women creatives and producers working on Broadway? I mean, if you're looking at statistics, we still have a long way to go in regards to gender. So, how do you think that that could happen?

Jen Sandler: I think the biggest thing, and I said this a little before. I think people need to know at a younger age, what is open to them. I think, you know, like I said, when you're in a high school, there's actors, there's directors, if you're lucky to know their stage managers, but I think more people need to know that, you know, you could be a producer, you could be a Press Rep, you could be a lightning designer. You could be a company manager, a general manager, you could be so many different things. And I think you know, if I knew that I probably would have wanted to be a producer before I was in the middle of college. I think there just needs to be more education. And I know I'm on the Broadway Women's Alliance and we've said like, how can we help with that?

Cause we want to see more women, more than anything. We want to see a women theater owner. Right now, all of those are white men and they're great at what they do, but we need to see women in leadership roles more than ever. We're seeing more women general managers now. We're seeing more stage managers, but we need producers too. I think we still have a long way to go, but I think I'm seeing more like I'm mentoring a 10th grader right now and she wants to be a producer and I never, I never would have come to that conclusion as a 10th grader. I think we're seeing more people realizing it now more than ever. And I think that is thanks to people like Jennifer Tepper with her book series, for sure. And I think we need to, I don't know if it's going to be like teaching, like teaching aids going around and talking about it with high schools. I just think we need something. I know Playbill and Theatermania have been trying to do things with it. I just think we need to show people what is available to them before they're out on the pavement, out of college or in the middle of college. You know, I, not everyone is going to be as lucky as me and realized it when they did and have people steer them in the right direction.

Spencer Williams: If you had all of the gatekeepers of Broadway listening to you right now, what would you say to them?

Jen Sandler: We can't go back to before. We have to be afraid. We have to try new things. We have to hire more women. We have to hire more minorities. We have to -- we have to not be safe. I think we're going to want to be safe. And I get it, because as a producer, we're going to want to be safe in some respects with the shows we bring to Broadway for some time when we're trying to get tourists back to New York, I totally get that. We want to be safe, but also we want to experiment and we want to try and all the things that we were too afraid to bring to Broadway before this pandemic, we have to try to bring now. We have to find the right investors. We have to try to find the right people to make things happen. We shouldn't think in the past anymore.

Spencer Williams: I agree. What are you working on right now that you'd like to share out?

Jen Sandler: Yeah, well, I'm out of New York Theater Barn, I'm executive producing, "I Don't Want to Talk About it", which has Ben Caplin's new musical, which we have been working on at New York Theater Barn. It's a musical about mental health and it's kind of told through the eyes of a troupe of actors like SchoolHouse Rock. So, I'm working on that. I'm also working on an adaptation of a celebrated novel for kids that I don't, I can't say what it is yet, but it's a show that I don't know if people today know, but it's something that has been a movie and something that I really love. So, I'm working on that. I think I'm working on a lot of ideas where I don't know if they're going to be a thing. Yeah. But I, and I think that's part of this whole thing, you know, you have to work on things and some things are going to get off the page and some things aren't. And I think I'm working at 54 Below shows that hopefully are going to happen soon. It depends when we reopen.

Spencer Williams: Okay, cool. Well, we'll look forward to that and we have 10 quick fire questions for you. What was the first musical you ever saw?

Jen Sandler: On Broadway? Beauty and the Beast.

Spencer Williams: Favorite musical of all time?

Jen Sandler: Spring Awakening. I was one of those kids as a teenager where it was like their favorite thing. I was on the message boards, all of that, all this stuff.

Spencer Williams: A musical guilty pleasure?

Jen Sandler: Honestly, The Last Ship is my obsession. People make fun of me for it. I don't care. Same with American Psycho. Those are like my flops that should have deserved better.

Spencer Williams: Okay. So, I knew we were going to be friends and I've said this before, but like what? I am obsessed with The Last Ship and I went to London to see American Psycho.

Jen Sandler: Yas. There are people that make fun of me about The Last Ship when they were like, they didn't even build a ship. How could you like it?

Spencer Williams: It was beautiful.

Jen Sandler: And I listened to it all the time and I cry.

Spencer Williams: Favorite cast album?

Jen Sandler: The Merrily We Roll Along cast album from City Center is one of my favorite things. Also the Sunday revival, the Jake Gyllenhaal one, and also Spring Awakening.

Spencer Williams: What has been your favorite piece or concert you've produced?

Jen Sandler: I have three answers to that. I thought about this for a long time before today. The "I Wish" series with Alexandra Silber is nominated for a Broadway World Award right now. You should vote for it -- for best variety show, that has been one of my favorite things. And it's giving theater performers a chance to sing from a show they never booked, or they aren't right gender for, they just, they're not right for that's one of my favorites and I can't wait to do that again when things are back. I also did the 25 year Bright Lights, Big City reunion concert. A lot of people don't know that show, but if you know the song "Brother", that's from Bright Lights,Big City, and that we worked directly with Paul Scott Goodman, who's now one of my good friends, the writer of the show to bring it back and we didn't update it, but I think we kind of fix things that needed to be fixed and it's going to have a life after, which is really exciting when theaters back. And then I think my third one right before the shut down in January, I co-produced 54 Celebrates Mel Brooks with like an all star cast of people that had done Mel Brooks shows and like funny people like Leslie Margarita and the owners of 54 Below were producers of The Producers on Broadway and Young Frankenstein. So, they were so happy about it. They sent it to Mel, he loved it. And that's just like for a Jewish kid from New Jersey, that's like the coolest thing ever to say that Mel Brooks watched your show about him.

Spencer Williams: Yeah, absolutely. A favorite theater company you've loved working for?

Jen Sandler: Playwrights Horizons, for sure.

Spencer Williams: What's your ultimate dream in the theater?

Jen Sandler: I mean, I think like the cliche dream is to win a Tony, but I think the dream of dreams is to produce shows that matter, that people are going to keep thinking about for years to come.

Spencer Williams: What TV show are you bingeing right now?

Jen Sandler: Oh my God, The Crown is my obsession right now. I just got to season three last night and having a lot of separation anxiety about Claire Foy and Matt Smith, not being there. And let's see what happens cause I've heard it's worth it when I get to Season Four and Princess Diana comes out.

Spencer Williams: It is worth it, but I had the same separation anxiety.  Final question for you. What's a quick snapshot or moment you miss about live theater?

Jen Sandler: This is a weird thing... I was thinking about this a few weeks ago. How much? Just the idea that the majority of my social free time before this pandemic was spent in a dark room and I think the idea that no theater is so much more than sitting in a dark room, for sure.

But I just think the idea that that's what brought me joy before this, the idea of sitting in a dark room and watching magic happen on stage. I just, and it's weird to think like, that's like, that's what I thought. I'd be like five nights a week, probably before this pandemic happened I was seeing a show and just sitting in a dark room is like my idea of entertainment.

And it should be, I can't wait until it's a thing again. And I just want to hear a stage manager say going dark and like me being really annoyed that all the lights got turned off, but also being so happy about it.

Spencer Williams: Exactly. Thank you so much for being here, Jen, and talking about your story. It's been really fun to listen about all the amazing things that you've done so fast in your career. And we look forward to following and seeing what you're up to next.

Jen Sandler: Thank you for having me.